Do you think sidebars are a good way to relay information to users of your board?

 

I think it's nice to have information in the header and footer, but sometimes those areas can be cluttered and hard to sift through the links you wish to access. A sidebar can help de-clutter those areas and make it more accessible, especially if you use a fixed sidebar that scrolls with the board. Of course, some administrators overdo the information sidebars contain and become cluttered, so keeping the sidebar information to a mid-tier minimum can be elegant.

I do not have sidebars on my forums but I like one sidebars. Sidebars get better visibility than the footer, therefore, I think you should be keeping important information on the sidebar. The header section does not leave a lot of room for adding information, even if you do it will look cluttered, therefore, sidebars serve the purpose of providing important information. In my opinion, if you add sections like latest posts or trending posts on the sidebar, it can be a good way to encourage your users to jump straight into the content for engagement.

No, no sidebars for me...

Slowly removing them. I do have a style for users that prefer sidebars.

Slowly removing them.

Is there a reason you're starting to do away with them?

It's funny, and not in a har-har sort of way, but I almost never interact with a sidebar. On one forum I removed it entirely for that exact reason. Never clicked on anything, assumed no-one else did either.

 

And afterwards it just felt empty. Strangely empty.

 

So my conclusion is, even if I don't click to access content via the sidebar I still look at it. Perhaps to give me a quick overview of what's going on at that time. So I say 'yes' to sidebars but not for navigational reasons.

One thing I do is have an expand/collapse option for the sidebar, and voila! Users who don't like the sidebar can collapse it.

Is there a reason you're starting to do away with them?

It tends to clutter the index. Like [mention=2]Al[/mention] I never interact with it. I have the option to collapse it for users that don't need it.

I honestly can’t remember exactly when sidebars first became a thing, but I do remember seeing them pop up now and then on old InvisionFree forums. It felt so unusual at the time, yet here we are—now, sidebars are everywhere, and I’m so used to them that it feels odd when a forum doesn’t have one.

 

Of course, they’re not perfect; sometimes sidebars end up cluttered or don’t show us the information we actually need. That’s why I appreciate that here on Administrata, we give members the option to toggle them on or off. Having those little customization options really makes a difference.

 

I've always enjoyed having flexibility as a forum member, and I keep hoping we’ll see even more of that in the future. Imagine being able to drag and drop forums, rearrange widgets, or tweak layouts to make it feel like your own space. I know that’s probably not something most people need—maybe only 5% of users would care to go that deep—but I think it would be a lot of fun for those who want it. Just another way to make the experience feel more personal!

I’ve seen one forum where the sidebar goes on way beyond the forum index. It looks ridiculous and is really bad design. No one ever scrolls all that way so it’s just loading more information than is necessary and slowing down loading times as a result.

 

Also, use the bloody order system to put the important stuff at the top not at the bottom.

I keep my sidebar minimal so it can fit decently on my small resolution. A user of my board was talking me into expanding it once, but I think the more minimalistic it is, the better. I present the essentials and not something completely unnecessary that you can find on other portions of the board that would take up a lot of space in the sidebar.

I’ve seen one forum where the sidebar goes on way beyond the forum index. It looks ridiculous and is really bad design. No one ever scrolls all that way so it’s just loading more information than is necessary and slowing down loading times as a result.

 

Also, use the bloody order system to put the important stuff at the top not at the bottom.

Seen that many times. There are probably hidden staff forums that the admin will see. Doesn't realize without them you create white space on forum list.

What would be really good is if you could present the sidebars in a way that didn't consume allllll the height. You want to display that supplementary information? Make it an accordion. Tabs. Other collapsible formats exist. Let people hide the ones that don't interest them, use that as the start of a curated experience.

Tabs.

I don't think I've ever seen a tabbed sidebar before. That's a pretty neat idea. You could have tabs like "Account Information", "Recent Posts", "Users Online", etc.

 

I agree that there is no need to go miles long down the page for the contents of a sidebar. I keep my sidebar decently sized enough that a 768 height resolution (like mine) can view all of the contents and it's in a fixed position that scrolls with the board.

Some SMF themes do it for the info centre on the front page for that exact set of functionality.

 

I took this concept to town in Moodle, though: it’s very common there to build things with blocks, both in courses and user dashboards, and scroll-of-death course pages are pretty normal. So I created a block that could hold other blocks and outline their presentation.

 

You can still see the screenshots of the things it let people do: https://moodle.org/plugins/block_multiblock

 

(It was hell to implement, mostly for supporting the course backup/restore feature Moodle has)

One thing I do is have an expand/collapse option for the sidebar, and voila! Users who don't like the sidebar can collapse it.

I'm working with a new style that has this option.

 

It would be nice if there were an option where if they collapse them, what typically would go there would shift into above/below forum — and maybe even between category — widgets instead.

 

Then you can still display that information to those that don't like sidebars, but would still find having say, a carousel of trending topics useful to have at the top, between categories, or at the bottom useful.

 

That'd be the best of both worlds.

What would be really good is if you could present the sidebars in a way that didn't consume allllll the height. You want to display that supplementary information? Make it an accordion. Tabs. Other collapsible formats exist. Let people hide the ones that don't interest them, use that as the start of a curated experience.

See, this is what I've been saying for a long time. Let people decide what they want to show. Bring more customization for the member. No side bar? Ok, toggle them off. Want to have a sidebar but only partial widgets? Great, let them drag and drop or whatever is possible. But we shouldn't assume people like everything the way we do.

Great, let them drag and drop or whatever is possible.

I'm really hoping XF 3 either has a more up to date "social" format or blocks that let, firstly, the admin to decide placement, but can be extended to letting users design their own custom layouts. In other words, let admins set the display order for first time viewers, but a style (either core or extendable by 3rd party) let users collapse, hide, and even drag and drop categories they think are more important higher, as it'll let them ignore the noise easier, thus theoretically, increase engagement, as they see what they want to post to or interact with first and foremost.

 

Edit: I forgot I have custom development to hide (ignore/block, rather, without blocking the author of the thread if they only wish to block it, along with categories and nodes [if permission is set to allow blocking of those categories and nodes in the node settings]) that I had developed for 2.2. It's a pipedream to think XF will implement this in v3, so I might give this a test run on 2.3 as it might let users focus more time on what they want to see, allowing for more engagement since they can quickly view what they want and save time to post or reply there.

Edited November 5, 2024Nov 5 by frm

I doubt XF 3 will provide a more social format. I also doubt quite strongly that it'll give user customisation in that regard, let alone drag and drop. I could see better placement by admins though.

 

Curating the user experience is really where the future is - such as there is one - but it needs to be infinitely better signposted than previous attempts in other markets to allow for it otherwise users won't know it's there, or won't care.

I also doubt quite strongly that it'll give user customisation in that regard, let alone drag and drop.

With DigitalPoint's Better Google Analytics add on, you can see that there is drag and drop functionality in the ACP to some degree. As 2.4 is focusing on, or so they say, admin improvements, I'm at least hopeful that they get rid of numerical display order in favor of drag and drop for nodes, etc. I find the numbering input for display order so archaic now, and can easily be messed up by a key not hitting (say you want display order 100 but enter 10). While not complex at all to fix, it would take (frustrating to some) seconds to try and find the node again to edit it to the correct display order, when you could just drag and drop it and have a better visual layout.

 

https://xenforo.com/community/threads/digitalpoint-better-google-analytics.206200/page-33#post-1705062

 

That is the reasoning behind my logic of XF 3 allowing, or being able to, have drag and drop. Maybe not as a core function on the 1st party style, but allow for 3rd party styles to drag and drop widget placement order, and it update for them only.

but it needs to be infinitely better signposted

I think this would be enough for desktop users to get the hint... but there's always a forum announcement that can be made as mobile users wouldn't see this and catch on, so they'd need to be instructed to long press a category/node to drag and drop it.

 

[ATTACH type=full" alt="1730857505002.webp]370[/ATTACH]

you can see that there is drag and drop functionality in the ACP to some degree

Yes, but that's not the point. It won't be for end users to customise their experience.

I find the numbering input for display order so archaic now, and can easily be messed up by a key not hitting

On the other hand, it's perfectly suited to all the people who have motor control issues (of which there are surprisingly many), the folks who have limited vision and rely on screen readers and other assistive technologies (also surprisingly many, far more than we want to pretend), and doesn't have any issues working on mobile.

I think this would be enough for desktop users to get the hint...

I guess you weren't around for the era when the Google homepage was customisable with (many) widgets and how virtually no-one used it.

 

It's actually mirrored in more recent times by the Apple vs Android debate - Android owners would go on at length about how customisable their devices were and Apple owners had a habit of 'and? Even if I had it I wouldn't use it'.

 

Heck, even on forums that let you collapse categories, baked into the core software, the majority of users don't. Some because they don't know it's there, some because they don't care that it's there. Numbers for which is which are hard to pin down, however. (Getting numbers of users who don't use the functionality is trivial enough because the preferences for this get stored, naturally, because that's needed to make it work.)

Yes, but that's not the point. It won't be for end users to customise their experience.

Yeah, I was merely introducing the concept of drag and drop in 2.4 so that it's a habitual thing that can be carried over to 3.0 for user preferences, little steps at a time to get people accustom to the action.

On the other hand, it's perfectly suited to all the people who have motor control issues

Drag and drop wouldn't completely abolish Display order ID. It could easily be drag/drop for some that would just convert the underlying Display order on the spot for insertion between or at the top/bottom. There should still be a Display order number for accessibility reasons, just accessible by clicking on the node to edit it as usual.

 

But, it makes rearranging much easier to drag and drop for those that can to rearrange a category, or to move children out of child nodes to be parents or even drag a node from one category to another. For those with accessibility issues, they could still go into the node to select the parent and numeric Display order.

Getting numbers of users who don't use the functionality is trivial enough because the preferences for this get stored, naturally, because that's needed to make it work.

If forums would collaborate and give up these numbers, it could give us a better idea of how to move forward: Toggles or no toggles.

Yeah, I was merely introducing the concept of drag and drop in 2.4 so that it's a habitual thing that can be carried over to 3.0 for user preferences, little steps at a time to get people accustom to the action.

Interesting how much faith you have in the XF team to be so bold. Commendable, but I think a trifle overly-hopeful.

 

But, it makes rearranging much easier to drag and drop for those that can to rearrange a category, or to move children out of child nodes to be parents or even drag a node from one category to another.

You’d think, you’d actually think, but in practice this isn’t nearly as true as you’d believe (source: implemented this exact functionality in Wedge and my SMF gallery for organising albums, and seen it done countless times over the years)

 

What happens in practice is that you end up fighting to get things to be the correct sub level or setting one thing as a sub board of another by accident, and trying to balance that ends up causing you to make it clunkier by deliberately making it harder to do one of the things over the other.

 

DnD when you have a single tier of items and it’s purely ordering is fine. It’s the nesting part that kills people, every single time.

 

could give us a better idea of how to move forward

I can tell you the answer right now: for such functionality, less than 20% of users use it, and once you eliminate technical forums with power users, this number goes down to low single digits. This is based on all the forums I worked with in the last 15 years of working with SMF including my time in support and dev.

 

It’s actually trended lower in recent years as people increasingly assume they get what they’re given and deal with it, just the same way it works in practice with social media.

Edited November 6, 2024Nov 6 by Arantor

it's in a fixed position that scrolls with the board.

I have always thought this was the best option in terms of user experience. A sidebar should only contain important information (not all of your links and irrelevant information) and it should be sticky on large devices and not displayed on smaller ones.

 

If a user does not or cannot see the need to make use of your sidebar, then it should not exist.

 

Another thing to consider is that, if you are using your sidebar for navigation and other information, a user should be able to easily access those in other ways.

 

For example, you can make use of your footer to show the quick links that would otherwise show on your sidebar on larger devices when users are on smaller devices. This allows them to have the horizontal real estate on smaller devices while ensuring whatever was on the sidebar is still on the page, albeit relocated.

 

You can also use what developers call a "drawer" like this

 

[ATTACH type=full" alt="Pure-CSS-Off-Canvas-drawers-Menu.webp]374[/ATTACH]

to keep the sidebar out of the main view but still available if a user needs it on smaller devices.

I love using sidebars on my forums. I've tweaked the placements of the widgets on my forums a lot.

I love using sidebars on my forums. I've tweaked the placements of the widgets on my forums a lot.

Your forum has sure changed a lot since becoming a member there.

 

Good to see it progress.