General Sacking of staff

[Bryn]

In terms of forum management, have you ever sacked your staff for any wrongdoing?

For me, yes I have but it was back when I was new to forum management (like over twenty years ago), where I sacked a moderator, whom I hired just because he wanted the job, for simply abusing the warn level system for another member. Plus he was an immature twit as well...

Thankfully, I didn't need to do this in recent times.

 

[Arantor]

I haven’t, but I have witnessed it a few times over the years. Often, sadly, it happens too late and that coming back from the damage done is hard work.

 

[InMyOpinion]

Thankfully I've never had to "sack" any staff as it sounds like it can get pretty awkward.

I always hired people/members who were on other forums and didn't seem to let the power get to their heads.

 

[Shawn Gossman]

I terminated one (and banned him) after I discovered he was a registered sex offender. I first asked him, which is confirmed, but he said since it's the internet, he didn't feel he needed to say anything. I couldn't have it. I banned him for life, and in all honesty, I don't regret that decision. We had child members on the forum, too.

Other than that, I only "demoted" staff members when they became inactive and never came back.

 

[Arantor]

I find the “registered sex offender” one complicated.

Before y’all get pitchforks and torches on me, this is not a unilateral defence. The fact is, people get added to that register, sometimes debatably unfairly owing to more or less strict interpretations of the law.

The obvious example: assume a jurisdiction with age of consent as 18. Imagine an 18 year old and a 17 year old one day short of their birthday and they indulge in certain things. The 18 year old, potentially, now faces such a registration for life for the crime of being essentially stupid and impatient. Young (but not too young, if you get my meaning), stupid and horny is a particular cause of a lot of trouble. Some jurisdictions allow for nuance in these cases, others don’t.

Should they in that situation, and specifically ones like it, still be tarred and feathered the same? My point is that “being on the register” is not always an equivalent offence. That said, many on it should indeed be treated with extreme care.

Does that mean you shouldn’t have done what you did? No, you were perfectly within your rights to do so and no one would blame you for doing it. (I think I even know who that was.)

Just saying, when hit by something like that, getting some context can make or break. I also think they should possibly have come forward the minute staffing was on the table with something akin to, “thanks for the offer, there’s something you should know” and discuss if/how it is relevant. This is not within the remit of “due diligence” on your part, and not volunteering this up front doesn’t exactly speak to either the narrative of “I made a stupid mistake when I was a teenager” or “this happened to me and I’m taking these steps to move forward”.

The wider question of “would you ban someone from staff for being a criminal?” I’d say it depends on the crime - fraud and the like, obviously not a contender for staff. Theft, ditto, But, say, a DUI from years ago when they were younger? Especially if having expressed remorse and taken positive action in their life? I find it hard to contemplate damning someone permanently over what might have been a poor choice in the past, especially if they’ve obviously learned from it.

 

[Shawn Gossman]

I find the “registered sex offender” one complicated.

It wasn't very easy.

What made me mad about it the most was my staff policy, which stated that no one could be a criminal or felon of major crimes.

He was a felon.

He was an adult. His victim was a teenager. They weren't too far apart.

It created even more drama for me. I then required all staff to give their real names so I could search to make sure they were legit. They then accused me of not trusting them, which was a right accusation. I handled it all wrong, but it was the first time, and I was really young.

It was a tough one. I totally understand everything you mentioned above, too. While I don't regret doing it, I do get what you're getting at.

Could I ban someone for being a criminal? If I did, I would be a hypocrite. I purposely drive 5-10 miles over the speed limit. I've done it since I've started driving. I knowingly break the speed limit.

It was actually from a forum long before me, and you met. One of my old weather forums.

 

[Cedric]

It wasn't very easy.

What made me mad about it the most was my staff policy, which stated that no one could be a criminal or felon of major crimes.

He was a felon.

He was an adult. His victim was a teenager. They weren't too far apart.

It created even more drama for me. I then required all staff to give their real names so I could search to make sure they were legit. They then accused me of not trusting them, which was a right accusation. I handled it all wrong, but it was the first time, and I was really young.

It was a tough one. I totally understand everything you mentioned above, too. While I don't regret doing it, I do get what you're getting at.

Could I ban someone for being a criminal? If I did, I would be a hypocrite. I purposely drive 5-10 miles over the speed limit. I've done it since I've started driving. I knowingly break the speed limit.

It was actually from a forum long before me, and you met. One of my old weather forums.

Driving over the speed limit does not make you a criminal, Shawn.

It's the people who invented the speed limits that are the criminals here.

 

[Arantor]

It wasn't very easy.

What made me mad about it the most was my staff policy, which stated that no one could be a criminal or felon of major crimes.

He was a felon.

He was an adult. His victim was a teenager. They weren't too far apart.

It created even more drama for me. I then required all staff to give their real names so I could search to make sure they were legit. They then accused me of not trusting them, which was a right accusation. I handled it all wrong, but it was the first time, and I was really young.

It was a tough one. I totally understand everything you mentioned above, too. While I don't regret doing it, I do get what you're getting at.

Could I ban someone for being a criminal? If I did, I would be a hypocrite. I purposely drive 5-10 miles over the speed limit. I've done it since I've started driving. I knowingly break the speed limit.

It was actually from a forum long before me, and you met. One of my old weather forums.

If your staff policy says “no x”, whether or not that’s legitimate in context, it’s pretty unethical for someone to see that and not go “um, hey, about that”. That’s the policy. (It gets fuzzier if the policy is intentionally discriminatory without reason, but a staff position on a forum is a position of power, will have access to some amount of personal data and “no felons” seems like a criteria for everyone’s safety. Discriminating on the usual protected categories is of course much fuzzier.)

I don’t think you should regret it - what happened sounded like a bad time lead by a guy who doesn’t care that he made a mistake in the eyes of the law, and presumably would do it again if the same situation arose. Which is indeed not a good candidate for a position of authority. But as ever it’s easy to write a policy that has unintended consequences.

There are also levels of being a criminal, which is really my point, and precisely which laws get violated speaks to the character of the individual. (I am not a driver so whatever my thoughts on that law are, are irrelevant.) But driving a little too fast isn’t comparable to theft, just as theft isn’t comparable to murder.

Ultimately it’s a question of trust. How much do you ever really know about someone? How much do you trust them? A lot of newer forum owners trust too easily and get burned, a lot of older ones do not trust easily and if they do find their trust violated it hits harder.

It’s also interesting in a forum-as-business fashion. Would you vet them the way you would a regular employee, with background checks? What if they’re not in the same country? (How would you even do a background check?)

 

[fdk]

I've never had to sack a member of staff on any of my websites. I've had staff have to step down for personal reasons, and I've removed somebody once who suddenly went inactive and never returned (after extensively attempting to contact them both online and on their mobile, unfortunately never found out if they were OK), but never had to sack somebody.

I suppose it comes down a lot to your vetting processes before agreeing to take somebody on in the first place. If you carry out an appropriate check and are happy and trusting of the person you're inviting onto your staff team, I can't really see any occasions where it would become necessary to sack a member of staff. I've had staff make plenty of mistakes, including some that caused quite some undoing and mediation to resolve, but I always felt that they were attempting to act in the best interests of everybody and their mistakes were honest ones, so I support them and advise on ways to manage things differently in the future in a kind way.

 

[Ravenfreak]

I've only sacked a staff member who was inactive. I sent him private messages and since he never responded or logged back in, I demoted him. I also made the mistake of hiring someone to be a co admin on a gaming forum I used to have on Proboards. She ended up deleting the theme I had installed and installed a bunch of themes that didn't fit the niche of the forum. I demoted her and banned her as well, now I know not to just hire someone I don't know.